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Hey Jbed

I recently made some corrections to the list of FFVII Items. The most recent edit I made was to fix an alignment issue with the Bolt Plume; it was aligned centrally. I changed this so that it was aligned to the left, however, for some reason, 1065 bytes were added. Please review, and undo if necessary. Thanks.

I intend to continue to make contributions based on info taken from the flevel.lgp scene.bin and kernel.bin.

DynamixDJ

I saw Kelt already explained the added bytes.

And your edits to the wiki are valued. Also I did receive your message about the formations stuff: belated thanks! I haven't since been back to looking into that stuff so I never got round to saying so, but it is appreciated. JBed (talk) 01:43, May 8, 2018 (UTC)

FFVIII enemy stats (again)

Hey, you've probably seen but I've been trying to get the ball rolling on FFVIII enemy stats with DarthKitty's help since we're so close to full infobox portability. First of all, feel free to check Template:infobox enemy stats FFVIII/data to see if I got the parameters you wanted right/if you want to make any other changes, thought you deserved to have some input given how the template is basically your baby. Just dropping in because Module:FFVIII enemy stats is also yours, and one change I'd like to make: instead of using tabs, any chance we can use the mw-collapsible setup as seen in Template:infobox enemy stats FFXII (item drop sections)? Far more portable to do it that way.-- Technobliterator ^T_C 22:08, June 3, 2018 (UTC)

If you're talking about the item drops section, they already didn't use tabs. But I've just changed it to look like XII's. JBed (talk) 10:29, June 4, 2018 (UTC)

Looks good now. Basically I saw that a tabber function exists in the module and assumed that was already in use in the new one, didn't want to remove myself though.-- Technobliterator ^T_C 10:59, June 4, 2018 (UTC)

Aah. Oh right, p.stattable is the tabber one currently on VIII enemy pages. I created a collapsible TRs alternative at p.collapsiblestattable for the new infobox. JBed (talk) 11:02, June 4, 2018 (UTC)

Are the data[statname .. "f" .. 1] supposed to be data[statname .. " a"] now?-- Technobliterator ^T_C 12:13, June 4, 2018 (UTC)

Yes/it depends. It's invoked from Template:Infobox enemy stats FFVIII/data (see line 304-337), so whatever the parameters are named there (currently e.g. "STR a") is what has to be used in the module-- and that should be the only instance of that function being invoked on the wiki.

I don't know if we can get the function to use the variables input into Template:Infobox enemy stats FFVIII/data without re-inputting them all individually like that. Whatever methods I tried originally didn't work. JBed (talk) 16:53, June 4, 2018 (UTC)

Oh, additional info: the stats variable holds the name for both the display and the variable. So you'll need to :lower() it for variable names if that's the route you're going. JBed (talk) 17:05, June 4, 2018 (UTC)

Right okay. I ask because Project:Sandsea#FFVIII template right now is showing negative numbers for stats and stat formulas, might have been something I did though.-- Technobliterator ^T_C 17:18, June 4, 2018 (UTC)

The negatives are because... so I set arbitrary defaults for each stat variable such that the end result would be a 0 stat at any level. Due to the nature of the formulas I can't do that for STR and MAG.

But there are two reasons that example is using the defaults: Firstly I never bothered changing STRf1 etc. to "str a" in the Sandsea -- I assume that's the same test I made when I was constructing the new infobox. Secondly, yeah, the aforementioned parameter names mismatch, that I assume got changed in a replace. I just changed it back for simplicity sake. JBed (talk) 22:55, June 4, 2018 (UTC)

Just a check. Obviously the design hinges on having low mid-high max being specified on each page. Just wondering what the easiest way to find out what the values are on the few enemies that have different level maximums from the usual 1-19, 20-29, 30-99 are? I found with Abadon (Final Fantasy VIII) (which I used to test) that only high max was specified in both enemy types, and it obviously only uses low and high. Do you know which enemies specifically use different level values so I can just add it manually to those and then I can have the bot automatically add | low min = 1, | low max = 19, etc to the rest?-- Technobliterator ^T_C 22:51, June 5, 2018 (UTC)

Abadon has three tiers, apparently there was a bug in Template:FFVIII Enemy that I never noticed.

If enemies have level boundaries different from the defaults then they use the Lv1/Lv2/LvL1/LvL2/LvM1/LvM2/LvH1/LvH2 parameters.

You can tell if an enemy's a 1-tier enemy if it uses a Mug 1 parameter (and not a Low Mug 1 or High Mug 1). If an enemy uses Mid Mug 1 then its a 3-tier enemy. It always seemed inelegant, but the Mug 1 values were how the old template knew what to display and so they are always present even when it equals "Nothing". JBed (talk) 00:05, June 6, 2018 (UTC)

Do all enemies have either one tier or three tiers then? If so, Abadon's page right now is wrong... but that does mean I can basically just have the bot add those parameters as the default value for all pages assuming no parameter is there right now?-- Technobliterator ^T_C 00:11, June 6, 2018 (UTC)

If an enemy has Low Mug 1 and High Mug 1 but not Mid Mug 1 then it is a 2-tier enemy, e.g. Cerberus (Final Fantasy VIII boss). Abadon's 2nd form is two-tiers, Abadon's first form is three-tiers (that wasn't displaying earlier because code error[1]). After you've done converting I'll check each enemy for errors because it seems some things are wrong/have been made wrong over time.

So if an enemy does not have a Low Mug 1 or High Mug 1 value, then its Lv1 and Lv2 parameters can be converted to low min and low max, and if it doesn't have them then add low min = 1, and low max = 100.

If an enemy has Low Mug 1 and High Mug 1, then its LvL1, LvL2, LvH1, LvH2 parameters can be converted to low min, low max, high min, and high max. If it doesn't have them then add low min = 1, low max = 19, high min = 30, high max = 100.

If in addition to the above the enemy has Mid Mug 1, then its LvM1 and LvM2 parameters can be converted to mid min and mid max. If it doesn't have them them then add mid min = 20, mid max = 29. That's the logic. JBed (talk) 14:37, June 6, 2018 (UTC)

I decided to just convert semi-manually with the old JS scripts rather than running a bot for the ones with multiple appearances, just because I don't really trust a bot to get it right without errors. I've converted all the ones with multiple versions, feel free to check because I think Seifer, Raijin and Fujin had errors. Is it fair to assume that the enemies with a different low min-high max are bosses? Because if so, I can just manually convert those while the bot converts the normal enemies, but if not, I will have to manually convert them all (shouldn't be a problem, FFVIII barely has any enemies).-- Technobliterator ^T_C 02:49, June 7, 2018 (UTC)

Side note: thoughts on making the show/hide in collapsible table rows just use an up and down arrow like the infobox collapsibles and new navbox collapsibles (and using slide if possible to mimic navboxes/normal mw-collapsible)? Might make more room in cases like Omega Weapon (Final Fantasy VIII) where the large HP stat squashes it. I'm thinking that we'll definitely keep collapsible table rows JS since mw-collapsible doesn't allow for it, even if the custom collapsible divs are no longer needed.-- Technobliterator ^T_C 02:58, June 7, 2018 (UTC) EDIT: w:c:dev:MediaWiki:Global Lua Modules/NavboxBuilder.css is what I meant re: using an arrow for the collapsible; either we can put that css in our common.js or add it to the .collapsible selector in common.css (assuming we're not eventually merging common.css and wikia.css given how there's no monobook skin anymore).-- Technobliterator ^T_C 03:11, June 7, 2018 (UTC)

low min is reserved for I think only Ifrit, because it's just a thing with his dungeon where all enemies fought are at a fixed level (but the random enemies there can be fought elsewhere), and high max is only bosses I think.

Up/down arrows would be cool. JBed (talk) 21:18, June 7, 2018 (UTC)

That's fine, there aren't many more normal enemies to convert so I'll just convert the rest manually. They seem to be fine at this stage, the main thing I noticed is that the pages don't link to the list of FFVIII enemy abilities, that plus they have anchor links for the old tab system that we obviously don't need anymore. Didn't encounter too many confusing levels other than the three pages mentioned above.

NavboxBuilder achieves up/down arrows by just using a square with top and right borders + 45 degree rotation for when uncollapsed, +135 for when collapsed, presumably I should just do that here for our collapsible rows JS?-- Technobliterator ^T_C 21:36, June 7, 2018 (UTC)

Alright so I've got it to work in a sandbox, except a) can't get the rows to collapse by default (not sure how to without adding a class to each individual row or using totally different jquery), and b) the css for the square won't be inside a td (not sure if that's a problem fixing though). Don't suppose you know how to fix?-- Technobliterator ^T_C 17:48, June 8, 2018 (UTC)

Don't think B's a problem. A just requires something like

$('tr.collapsibletr.collapsed').each(function(){
     $(this).nextUntil('.collapsibletr, .uncollapsible').slideToggle(100);
});

right? Except not slideToggle because that would be pointless (I don't jQuery, whatever the best way to get it to display:none is). Although slideToggle doesn't actually do anything with TRs besides cause a delay before hiding, right? Or are there some implementations on browsers where it does? JBed (talk) 18:16, June 8, 2018 (UTC)

slideToggle literally just adds the delay, I went with it at first to try and replicate the navbox slide, and then just stuck with it because using toggle would mean fading out. That said, using toggle with no delay might be best.

Using that doesn't fix the problem unfortunately. Problem is the only way I know to get a tr to not show by default is to give it display: none in css, meaning the toggle will change it to display: table-row each time it's clicked. So I think the solution is probably some sort of css. Now we could put a class for the whole table that makes all trs not containing the .collapsible selector have display: none, but ideally we want to avoid that as it makes the bot work too difficult. Unless there's another way to do this in css, guess we need different jquery?-- Technobliterator ^T_C 18:59, June 8, 2018 (UTC)

EDIT: well, I found

$('tr.collapsible.collapsed').click(function(){
    $(this).nextUntil('tr.collapsible.collapsed').css('display', function(i,v){
        return this.style.display === 'table-row' ? 'none' : 'table-row';
    });
});

as a way to make it hidden by default. But then there's the question of if we ever want to get it to show by default instead...-- Technobliterator ^T_C 19:06, June 8, 2018 (UTC)

I modified the JS. Am I missing something or doesn't it behave like we want? JBed (talk) 19:45, June 8, 2018 (UTC)

Much better, should've thought of that myself. I think we can just push that live now, and I'll get a bot to change pages to use the collapsibletr selector now. Thanks! Outside of FFVIII enemy stats module, are there any major templates that use the old collapsible rows (since the bot will just edit ns:0)?-- Technobliterator ^T_C 21:03, June 8, 2018 (UTC)

Can't think of any. I don't particularly care either way, but any reason not to just stick with "collapsible"? We're still usong collapsed and uncollapsible. JBed (talk) 21:10, June 8, 2018 (UTC)

Basically just for bot work. As I anticipate all of our collapsibles using mw-collapsible (saves us code, is more likely to become portable), I chose to differentiate collapsibletr as a selector that the bot will ignore because we want to keep that one, whereas the others should be converted to mw-collapsible, if that makes sense. Not opposed to changing it back afterwards. Plus after that, it makes it easier for people to know that collapsibletr is only to be used for table rows, whereas mw-collapsible is used in other instances.-- Technobliterator ^T_C 21:26, June 8, 2018 (UTC)

That makes sense. Yeah, I liked the consistency with using collapsible in all instances but since it's the only one left that doesn't matter any more. "collapsibletr" is probably better. JBed (talk) 21:44, June 8, 2018 (UTC)

Rubicus

Didn't really want to do anything with {{Rubicus}} without your input since you made the template, but it currently uses tabber, and I'm not sure if it's working properly. Any ideas for how to update it to not use tabber? Using mw-collapsible is probably the easiest way, but it might be worth looking into making the Rubicus entries be cards, similar to w:c:community:Template:StaffCard as on w:c:community:Project:Staff. Makes them portable easily, seems to be roughly what the design was going for.-- Technobliterator ^T_C 18:49, June 15, 2018 (UTC)

It doesn't work because one of the functions it uses was removed from JS. But we can just trash the JS.

Also it doesn't really use tabs. You added the tabber to switch between PSP and HD versions but do we even use that anywhere? There's no point preserving the fanslation on Rubicus entries, and I don't think HD did anything differently besides removing the swimsuit attires (perhaps that was even just the English version), right?

Do what you want with it. JBed (talk) 19:12, June 15, 2018 (UTC)

Makes sense, I've removed the tabber. We can probably trash the JS, do you remember what it was used for?-- Technobliterator ^T_C 20:07, June 15, 2018 (UTC)

The JavaScript formatted it so it looked like it did on a PSP screen, the images and pages were togglable with buttons. JBed (talk) 20:14, June 15, 2018 (UTC)

Oh right. I don't think we need our own JS for that, we might be able just use mw:Manual:Collapsible elements#With custom toggle link and set the buttons to toggle the images and then remove the JS.-- Technobliterator ^T_C 20:32, June 15, 2018 (UTC)

Looked into it and sadly I don't think it's possible. It's a huge shame though because I think that could be a neat feature if it worked, and there are easy ways to implement the same thing in JS using that structure, though for the sake of 7 mainspace pages I don't think it's worth it. I'll remove the JS for now, but we can add it back if we ever want another previous/next custom toggle like that to be used more broadly in other instances (or you can make one yourself to use in other cases if you feel like it). Hoping this won't break the template though.-- Technobliterator ^T_C 22:02, June 15, 2018 (UTC)

Dialog boxes

Hey, just wanted to ask you about the dialog boxes idea from a while back. Looking at it again, I feel like auto-generating it is not really feasible, due to how different the boxes need to be for each game. That said, it's still probably too much CSS to include in common. I was wondering if we could revisit the idea and implement them (as they're a pretty nice feature still), but make an import for it?-- Technobliterator ^T_C 13:00, June 27, 2018 (UTC)

FFBE stuff

Hi! I'm not sure if it's you I should be bothering with this, but, well, here I go (mostly because you said something in the FFBE characters' Talk page a while ago). I was wondering about module-ifying the FFBE units and ability pages since there so much data, but I barely know about data stuff to do it myself. I was also wondering: shouldn't the {{FFBE Dungeon Info}} get revamped/the infobox treatment (like the enemy stats and FFRK dungeon have been)? I created the template a while ago, but it looks pretty awful in comparison to those (and IMO occupies too much space). I know this is pretty time-consuming but I figured I'd ask.| ShiroxCloud ♔ _(talk) 19:48, July 16, 2018 (UTC)

I'll look into working on a data system and converting data over.

As for FFBE Dungeon Info, do you mean something like this/Template:Infobox event dungeon info single FFRK? JBed (talk) 21:50, July 16, 2018 (UTC)

Yeah, something like that. (...With I guess, up to 12 stages as you can see in Chamber of Crystals. I'm pretty sure that is the maximum up until now.) | ShiroxCloud ♔ _(talk) 22:48, July 16, 2018 (UTC)

Module:FFVII enemy stats

Just saw this, seems like a really good idea to handle things with Lua in this instance. I just got a couple questions:

1. There may be some more times that invoking functions in enemy stats infoboxes could make them faster, i.e. FFIV infobox for the enemy types and other info sections. Is it worth making a module for all enemy stats infoboxes that handles functions like that?
2. Bizarro∙Sephiroth/Three party stats doesn't load currently with Lua -- but then again, it barely loaded before, so nothing really new. That said, we probably just need a better structure for Bizarro∙Sephiroth in general, figured you'd know better than me, I just split into subpages with tabview because I didn't really know what else to do with it. Any ideas?-- Technobliterator ^T_C 13:31, October 1, 2018 (UTC)

I did it for VII to try to reduce the load times for a specific case, but if there's a fair bit of wikitext processing then load times should benefit from moving it to Lua.

Chocobo (Final Fantasy VII enemy) was getting a single Script error on it before. Now some of the wikitext processing has been moved to sub-invokes that activate after the initial page one, it loads the individual infoboxes fine but still can't do everything before timing out (so I can't tell if I've actually saved any processing time, but in splitting it up it does at least output something).

If Bizarro Sephiroth was working initially I don't think it's my recent edits that broke it. Wikia might have modified the code for infoboxes and they take longer to load, or they reduced the Lua timeout value.

I don't know much about the Bizarro fight, but I'm guessing if we must we can split the 2 and 3-party battles into a page for each party even if we end up with duplicate information. JBed (talk) 18:30, October 1, 2018 (UTC)

It was barely working before honestly. Ever since it was converted it's been slow to load, as for what made have broke it, I only know that the max Lua memory per page is now a little less.

p.s. good work on the area location pages. Definitely better to have those, always thought it was weird how a lot of locations like towns list enemies found in the WM in the area nearby when the enemies aren't part of the actual location.-- Technobliterator ^T_C 08:54, October 2, 2018 (UTC)

Translations (Final)!

		Xenomic TALK - 23:11, November 30, 2018 (UTC)
		Howdy, long time no talk. So, this is the FINAL time we'll be going through this with Pictlogica, as the game ends as of today. However, there is a video that showcases ALL of the Premium Skills in the game, so I'm grabbing images finally. This one in particular (used by Mira from MLaaDL), is used after her Premium Skill activates: https://i.gyazo.com/b8dc8c45c8b023778a67a911cb823fb2.png Any idea what it is?

つかいま召喚 Tsukaima Shōkan, lit. "Summon Minion". It's on Pictlogica Final Fantasy translations already. JBed (talk) 23:48, November 30, 2018 (UTC)

		Xenomic TALK - 00:00, December 1, 2018 (UTC)
		Oh, blaaaaah...well then, that's all that I needed it seems. Other than what the ones on Premium Skill isn't translated at all, if you'd like to try to help with those.

• 朱雀百式 Suzaku Hyakushiki -- it is a reference to the Vermilion Bird at level 100. In the Japanese version, above the command window when it's being used/can be used I guess it says "朱雀[level]式" (e.g. 朱雀５式), but when it's at 100 it reads 朱雀百式 (百 is 100 in kanji). In English, it says "VBT-[level]" (e.g. VBT-12), but I don't know what it says at level 100. It might not say "VBT-100", it might say something completely different.
• まずは、これをおみまいよ！ Mazu wa, kore o omimai yo! -- It's what she says at the opening of her battle in FF7. In English: Try this on for size!.
• 暁の剣技 Akatsuki no Kengi. I don't know if this is from anything in particular, but Bartz has a weapon in Dissidia called 暁の剣 Akatsuki no Ken (lit. Sword of Dawn/Dawn Sword) TLd as Dayspring. 剣 means sword, and 剣技 means sword skill. So you may TL this as "Sword Skill of Dawn", or if you want to take into account the Dissidia weapon you may TL this as "Dayspring Tech".
• ちょうはつ Chōhatsu -- I'm guessing it's Provoke, the Viking ability.
• エリアの援護 Eria no Engo, lit. "Aria's Protection". Not named from anything, but PFF has a similarly named ability with Desch.

JBed (talk) 02:51, December 1, 2018 (UTC)

Game manuals

I discovered the "Final Fantasy VII/Manual" pages, which I'd forgotten about. I think hosting the manuals on the wiki is a good thing, as they're easy to reference as sources that way, but I think it would be better to just scan them in and upload the PDF form, like we do here, than to make an HTML form. This means we can still use them as sources, but people can see the original versions, and it will reduce maintenance required on these pages. Thoughts?-- Technobliterator ^T_C 15:30, December 20, 2018 (UTC)

I don't have any special attachment to the manual pages anymore, although uploading the PDFs will serve the same purpose. archive.org has a bunch:

https://archive.org/search.php?query=final+fantasy&and[]=mediatype%3A%22texts%22&and[]=loans__status__status%3A%22-1%22

JBed (talk) 15:43, December 20, 2018 (UTC)

Interesting. Can we just download the pdfs from here in that case? I'd be happy to do that and upload them.-- Technobliterator ^T_C 15:47, December 20, 2018 (UTC)

Yeah, should be no problem with mirroring archive.org's manuals. JBed (talk) 16:04, December 20, 2018 (UTC)

Categorized redirects

So Catuse managed to work out a script how to do it, and now we have categorized redirects, see Category:Weapons in Final Fantasy VII. Going to get the bot later to relink to these redirects instead of "Final Fantasy VII weapons#Name" everywhere. Just asking about two things:

1. The way the bot works means that the redirect created will always have the tag. This wasn't actually the idea but then I figured it might actually help since if the tag is always there in the weapon name you'll never need to change the links on article pages. Thoughts?
2. This doesn't work with weapons stored in modules, like Module:FFXV Data/Weapons... Cat just said we're better off asking you what to do with that.-- Technobliterator ^T_C 01:54, January 16, 2019 (UTC)

I don't think having to move the non-tag redirects to tag redirects when a weapon reappears is too much of a deal. It's the simplest of page moves where all links to the former go to the latter. If a weapon does appear in one game and we make "Weapon X (Final Fantasy Y)", we'd still have to make the "Weapon X" page a redirect anyway. And we'll still be having to move some of these redirects too (when they retranslate games, when they release an English localisation of a game we've been using wiki-translations for, when they patch games, if they release DLC and add something with the same name as something already in the game).

Can't you make the script check to see if the tagless page exists/is already a redirect (and where it redirects to)? We're also going to run into situations like "Ultima Weapon (Final Fantasy VI)" which we can't really look out for automatically, unless the name appears on two of the lists (like an Item also appearing as an Enemy Ability).

Also I imagine part of the botting process will be also relinking links like "FFY weapons#X" to X (FFY)"?

To the second point, how does weapons stored in modules work differently? Not like we can use #invokes to set up redirects. JBed (talk) 03:15, January 16, 2019 (UTC)

Makes sense, can just make the bot only create a tagged redirect when the base page doesn't exist then (and I'll delete the tagged redirects tomorrow then rerun the script). Should be possible to do that, will let Catuse have a look at this though (pretty sure "Ultima Weapon (Final Fantasy VI)" are exceptions where we can take care of that manually).

Relinking links is also part of the bot process, but that will be a different script (I'll just write a bash script for it after the redirects are made).

It works differently in that the bot can't find the weapons by looking at anchors on a list page, since they're all stored on the module itself. Right now, the script finds what redirects to create based on what it finds inside anchors on list pages, but with a module, we didn't know how to get it to find all weapons in a module.--2A00:23C5:D681:1A00:313B:1304:E91C:604C 03:28, January 16, 2019 (UTC)

Final Fantasy XV weapons still has anchors. Oh duh, you're searching the wikitext. Obviously.

Here's a list of all the weapon names via {{#invoke:FFXV Data|createlist|Weapons|td=name}}

If you need the list in a specific format then you can regex it. Or you can just loop through the names in the console of the data page and log them in any format you want. JBed (talk) 03:51, January 16, 2019 (UTC)

Here's the code for making redirects (I think it's pretty self-explanatory). Is this what you guys wanted, or am I misunderstanding? Cat (meow ∙ hunt) 04:34, January 17, 2019 (UTC)

def makeTaggedRedirect(name):
    redirect = pywikibot.Page(site, name + TAG)
    target = "[[" + GROUND + "#" + name + "]]"
    if redirect.exists() and redirect.isRedirectPage() and target not in redirect.text:
        return "Already a tagged redirect at " + name + ", disambiguate manually!"
    elif redirect.exists() and not redirect.isRedirectPage():
        return "Already a tagged page at " + name + ", disambiguate manually!"
    else:
        redirect.text = "#REDIRECT " + target + "\n\n[[Category:" + CATEGORY + "]]"
        redirect.save(summary="Automatically generated tagged redirect to " + target + ".")
        return "Successfully tag redirected " + name + ".\n"

def makeRedirect(name):
    redirect = pywikibot.Page(site, name)
    target = "[[" + GROUND + "#" + name + "]]"
    if redirect.exists() and redirect.isRedirectPage() and target not in redirect.text:
	return "Already a redirect at " + name + ", disambiguate manually!\n\n" + makeTaggedRedirect(name)
    elif redirect.exists() and not redirect.isRedirectPage():
	return makeTaggedRedirect(name)
    else:
	redirect.text = "#REDIRECT " + target + "\n\n[[Category:" + CATEGORY + "]]"
	redirect.save(summary="Automatically generated redirect to " + target + ".")
	return "Successfully redirected " + name + ".\n\n"

Made a few adjustments and far as I can tell it's now working as intended (see Category:Weapons in Final Fantasy X and Category:Weapons in Final Fantasy VI). Obviously in cases like Ragnarok/Ultima Weapon, we'll have to do it manually, which is fine because the bot logs tell you when to do that. So I should now be able to do this for weapons, armor, accessories, items, abilities, and the rest... After oding each set of categories I'll try to run the bash script to relink.-- Technobliterator ^T_C 22:27, January 17, 2019 (UTC)

Looks fine. On another note, I just added an image beneath the A-Ball redirect and it does in fact show up on Category:Weapons in Final Fantasy X. Is this something we want to do? It's probably not worth factoring into the bot script or making a priority, but I think it's neat. JBed (talk) 07:41, January 18, 2019 (UTC)

Agreed, it's definitely neat, but should be optional, and not a priority.-- Technobliterator ^T_C 08:47, January 18, 2019 (UTC)

Just curious about your opinion on one thing. In the case of limit breaks, when making redirects, I got the feeling that it might actually be better to instead turn recurring limit break pages into proper pages instead and move the non-original appearances to "Other appearances" sections. So instead of "Attack Reels (Final Fantasy X)", Attack Reels just becomes the page we use for it, with the right category. Any thoughts on just doing that? It would be trivially easy to just do this with a bot anyway.-- Technobliterator ^T_C 15:53, February 6, 2019 (UTC)

In most cases I'm against that structure. Especially if we're only going to make "Attack Reels (Wakka ability)" into an FFX ability page because it's recurring. If Attack Reels from FFX is worth being on its own page on its own merit then I'd put it on "Attack Reels (Final Fantasy X)" while "Attack Reels (Wakka ability)" is still a parent.

If I'm searching for "Attack Reels" in another game but am immediately presented with "is an ability in FFX", I think my first thought would be that the wiki doesn't cover it. Although I get that most of our recurring pages are currently useless because we don't have editors that care past making lists of what name-of-thing appears in what game. But imagine if there was an Attack Reels with equal or greater complexity and/or significance! JBed (talk) 17:36, February 6, 2019 (UTC)

Hmm, makes sense in most cases but I feel like these pages are different. Particularly everything in Category:Signature abilities, and things like Category:Signature weapons when I think about it. The pages derive notability from being an ability/weapon associated with that character in that particular game that then reappeared to represent that character in other spinoffs. So in that way, you can't really separate "Attack Reels (Wakka ability)" from the Final Fantasy X appearance, or from it being Wakka's ability, as those will be most significant.

Good example is Angel Wing (Limit). This was written as a recurring page until I retooled it, and while in this case there's clearly enough content for that to be notable on its own even if it didn't reappear, the fact is that the page about Rinoa's limit break from Final Fantasy VIII will always be about that first and foremost, and while it may be important in another spinoff, it can't really be separated from that. Fair point on the intro of the page (in fact I just had to edit that page as I forgot to add the game name in), but I think this can easily be resolved with "Angel Wings is Rinoa's second Limit Break in FFVIII which has reappeared in her other appearances throughout the series" while still being accurate. For signature abilities and weapons, where they are primarily about the first character/game they are in, I would honestly say these are better retooled. Worth considering?-- Technobliterator ^T_C 22:23, February 6, 2019 (UTC)

That Angel Wing page would be much better if it was a parent page, with the FFVIII-specific material in its own article. You can still point out the progenitor in the parent without needing to explain everything about it in that same article.

I just can't agree. At the core of what you are asking is that abilities (like Attack Reels in FFX) can warrant articles just because of appearances in other things at a later date, and that doesn't make sense to me. When the next spin-off comes around, somehow only at that point our coverage of an ability has become inadequate and prose and headers become necessary to explain it. Things should warrant articles because we decide the way they are currently covered is unsuitable and inadequate, and they needn't usurp a parent to do so.

Although I'm not really someone who's going to be easily convinced about this. I also disagree with "/Gameplay" articles covering multiple games, and think character articles should be closer to the Gilgamesh model. JBed (talk) 23:04, February 6, 2019 (UTC)

What would you say should be done for enemy abilities that are the same as player abilities? For all of them, there will inevitably be cases of the enemy ability being the same. For instance, for "Fire (Final Fantasy)", I was thinking either:

1. Just add the "Enemy abilities in Final Fantasy" category to the existing redirect, it will redirect to Magic (Final Fantasy) but they're both the same ability.
2. Add "enemy ability" to the redirects, so "Fire (Final Fantasy enemy ability)". That said, I think it would be best to have "Fire (Final Fantasy)" be the main redirect, as it is what most players will be looking for, so tagged the Magic (Final Fantasy) redirect as just "Final Fantasy" is best. Might be best as the enemy ability has different info in that table for that circumstance, i.e. which enemies use Fire.
3. Second option, with the exception of Blue Magic spells, as they're obviously just enemy abilities and that table contains the same info. So "Fire (Final Fantasy V enemy ability)" redirects to the enemy abilities list page, but "1000 Needles (Final Fantasy V)" redirects to the Blue Magic (Final Fantasy V) page without the list.

Thoughts?-- Technobliterator ^T_C 01:28, February 14, 2019 (UTC)

In the long run I think it would be better for us to consider enemy abilities more akin to a skillset, and only feature enemy exclusive abilities. Our other skillset pages can include a column for enemies that use the ability where appropriate. If an enemy uses a variation of the ability that has a different power or MP cost then that would be considered an enemy ability, and so we'd have "Fire (Final Fantasy Magic ability)" and "Fire (Final Fantasy enemy ability)" or whatever. I hope variants on player abilities doesn't happen a lot, but there are cases like the Dark Aeons and Beatrix as a boss where it does. (Edit: Well, it depends on the game. Won't happen much in V and VII where player and enemy abilities are derived from the same list, but IX is a different story)

But if we're still handling enemy abilities as we are now, then I'd go with option 2. Blue Magic pages aren't always going to link to all enemies that use it because sometimes it's not relevant to learning it. FFVIII is a prime example. JBed (talk) 02:13, February 14, 2019 (UTC)

Fine by me to go with 2. then. It's pretty trivial to use the bot to change redirects and links later, so if we want to go with that reorganization at another time then it should be fine (I don't think I understand it enough to do it now though).-- Technobliterator ^T_C 12:47, February 14, 2019 (UTC)

FFXV lures

Could the Final Fantasy XV lures table have a section for how to acquire. I could fill it in. There's shops, quest reward, Totomostro prize, dlc and just finding them on the ground.Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 16:25, January 22, 2019 (UTC)

Added fields for find, reward (quests and Totomostro), shop, and download. JBed (talk) 17:30, January 22, 2019 (UTC)

Thanks<3, added infos.Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 22:13, January 22, 2019 (UTC)

No Userboxes?

You seem to have some dislike for userboxes, because I see not a single one in your userpage. ​‑‑SilSinn⁹⁸⁰¹⁠💬 05:02, February 17, 2019 (UTC)

I used to just view userboxes as a fad, but they can definitely be useful with simply conveying a basic understanding of a user's capabilities and areas of expertise.

But I decided to keep my userpage as basic as possible and it didn't involve userboxes. JBed (talk) 07:35, February 17, 2019 (UTC)

Beware of vandal Sharktale23

This user, User:Sharktale23, is vandalizing several WIKIA wikis. If he ever comes up here, please block him indefinitely before he vandalizes FFWiki. I am sleepless trying to undo whatever he does at one of my favorite wikis, Sparta Remix Encyclopedia, but he repeats whatever I undid like rapid fire, and the admins there are probably asleep and not doing their duty to block this abusive user. So beware of him if he ever comes up here to spread his abusive behaviour. Thankee. ​‑‑SilSinn⁹⁸⁰¹⁠💬 10:05, March 2, 2019 (UTC)

A FANDOM bot by the name Kuzura finally took care of this interwiki vandal and blocked him permanently from all wikis. So we can rest happy and focus now on whatever matters most: improving this wiki. ​‑‑SilSinn⁹⁸⁰¹⁠💬 10:43, March 2, 2019 (UTC)

Procurement point

Question: would it be possible to generate the ingredients list to the Procurement point article so it only includes the "find" field?Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 17:10, March 2, 2019 (UTC)

Like this?:

JBed (talk) 22:50, March 2, 2019 (UTC)

Perfect. Thanks! So good.Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 03:07, March 3, 2019 (UTC)

Hello. I am trying to find a solution to the 1000 character limit, as discussed here. And, I was wondering if you had found one already. This error keeps me from minimizing table space used when assigning icons to characteristics in the game that I edit for. Any help is appreciated. Thank you. --Kwismaskiller (talk) 19:55, May 27, 2019 (UTC)

You can use Lua/Module namespace to write a function that does the replacing. You can also use CSS to have images display after certain links in certain situations. The easiest solution of all is to just to use individual templates for each instance. JBed (talk) 20:50, May 27, 2019 (UTC)

Is this short talk about 1000-char limits part of the "Procurement point" thread above or a separate topic that should be a ==section== of its own? ‐⁠‑SilSinn⁹⁸⁰¹⁠💬 00:35, May 28, 2019 (UTC)

FFXV food buff icons

I would like to put these icons (and descriptions) to Module:FFXV Data/FoodStatuses. Could you add a place for an image please? Thanks.Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 18:49, August 20, 2019 (UTC)

The icon field is for images, and the icondesc is for these icon descriptions. The icon descriptions will show up on the FF15 statuses page. The icons will appear on the statuses page and also on the Recipes/Restaurant data. JBed (talk) 19:20, August 20, 2019 (UTC)

Thanks, it's perfect!Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 21:21, August 20, 2019 (UTC)

FFVII script

Since you know the game best, I figured I'd ask if you had any thoughts on Final Fantasy VII script? Still work in progress, but I thought enough was done that I'd let other people look at it and contribute. Open to any/all suggestions on how to approach this, but the goal is a transcript of all dialogue to help with sourcing and otherwise.-- Technobliterator ^T_C 07:05, February 11, 2020 (UTC)

In FFVII, Cloud's inner self is distinguished by speaking in grey text. I don't know if you want to highlight that in any way.

The PC version has a number of differences from the PS versions, though I'm sure you already know. My ideal for script pages would be something akin to this. Though that's likely outside of your interests and capabilities so whatever. JBed (talk) 07:31, February 11, 2020 (UTC)

I'm open to highlighting the grey text as in the game, but I'm not sure how good that is at communicating to the reader what that's supposed to mean.

Indeed, the PC and later version differences have made it difficult to verify. Since longplays don't include lots of the optional content, I'm basically forced to verify this with a less-than-ideal method. If we were to make a PC script, it'd just be "Final Fantasy VII PC script".

Likewise, I'm open to making a Japanese script page, but I don't think including both scripts side-by-side on the same page is a good way to do it, given the pages will be large enough as they are. It's probably better to make sure the pages are identical so they can be cross-checked. Can't really do anything too fancy with the script right now though because I'm just trying to get it as complete as possible in time for VII Remake (along with lots of other things that need to be ready...).-- Technobliterator ^T_C 07:48, February 11, 2020 (UTC)

You don't have a PC version of the game? If you had the flevel.lgp file you'd just have to open it in a third-party editor and you could see all the text.

You don't have to make the text grey. You could just label the speaker as "Grey text" or something. JBed (talk) 08:05, February 11, 2020 (UTC)

I do, but I have to use bootcamp to access it, and switching back and forth between operating systems isn't ideal. Looks like that tool can be used with the PSX version and on macOS though.

Makes sense regarding the label.-- Technobliterator ^T_C 17:21, February 11, 2020 (UTC)

Caraway FFVIII

I remember that specific interview from the 2001 Euro FFVIII website and always wondered what nazi thing they supposedly removed! The only uniform I could think of was Caraway, and when the wiki got the detailed concept art I really looked at it too to see if it was different than in the game (hah, it's not coloured of course). The armband! Best info.Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 16:49, April 18, 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, I checked the Dollet soldiers first because I barely remember seeing them in the game or in any detail. Then I checked Caraway-- I just looked at the texture files so spotting the difference was easy. :The common screenshot I see of Caraway is this one, where you can't even see the armband even if it feels like you should. In Remastered you actually can see it. JBed (talk) 02:34, April 19, 2020 (UTC)

FF6

Hello, JBed, long time. I was told you may have the English Ultimania of FF1-6, and was wondering if the guide specifically names the story segments of FF6. I'm looking to expand its coverage similar to FF7, and thus it would need quest pages like No. 1 Reactor Bombing, and I'd like to know if there are official names that could be used. DrakeyC (talk) 04:54, April 19, 2020 (UTC)

Short answer: No. You'd be better off coming up with the names yourself. And I couldn't really insist you cut up the game in any specific way based on the guides either, so you should probably make that decision too.

I basically checked every official guide. Most at best divide by 2 or 3 big chapters (e.g. World of Balance) and then sub-divide by the locations' name. Here's the more interesting things I found:

FFVI完全攻略編

The Kanzen Kōryaku-hen divides the game into 5 unnamed but not totally arbitrary chapters of:

• 崩壊前の世界 World of Balance

  Narshe ~ Narshe Snowfield

  Kohlingen ~ Sealed Gate

  Vector Feast[ベクタ会食] ~ End of the World[世界崩壊]

• 崩壊後の世界 World of Ruin

  Solitary Island ~ Triangle Islands[三角島]

  Doma Castle ~ Final Dungeon[ラストダンジョン]

The last two chapters have the first chapter being recruiting characers, and the second doing sidequests with those characters (e.g. Ebot, Dream World). If we were deciding our own chapters we'd split from Solitary Island to Airship, then from there to the end of the game.

FFVI Advance Official Complete Guide

Square's official guide for FFVIA divides the game into eight chapters.

• 崩壊前 World of Balance

  Narshe ~ Returner Hideout

  Lethe River ~ Figaro Castle

  Kohlingen ~ Blackjack

  Albrook ~ Imperial Palace

  Albrook ~ Floating Continent

• 崩壊後 World of Ruin

  Solitary Island ~ Darill's Tomb

  Falcon ~ Inside Zone Eater

  Opera House ~ Kefka's Tower [this chapter includes Opera House, Figaro Castle, Ancient Castle Cave, Ancient Castle, Doma Castle, Dreamscape, Thamasa, Ebot Rock, Gau's father's house, Maranda, Cultist Tower (revisit), Nikeah, Maranda Gigantuar stuff, Jidoor, Coliseum, Kefka's Tower]

So the last two chapters here are the same as in the Kazen Kōryaku-hen--the first is for recruiting characters, the second is for everything else. The difference is it splits off the stuff before getting into the airship into its own chapter.

FF20th Anniversary Ultimania

The 20th Anniversary Ultimania's Scenario volume, like for all games, divides into neat small segments based on location. The only thing that makes it noteworthy in this list is that it merges small story-tied locations together. All the sidequests also get a "chapter".

• Narshe
• Figaro Castle
• South Figaro Cave ~ South Figaro ~ Duncan's House ~ Mt. Koltz
• Returners' Hideout ~ Lethe River
• [Sabin編] Gau's Father's House ~ Imperial Camp
• [Sabin編] Phantom Forest ~ Phantom Train ~ Baren Falls
• [Sabin編] The Veldt ~ Mobliz ~ Crescent Mountain Cave ~ Serpent Trench ~ Nikeah
• [Locke編] South Figaro ~ South Figaro Cave
• [Edgar編] Narshe
• Narshe
• Figaro Castle ~ Kohlingen
• Jidoor ~ Zozo
• Jidoor ~ Opera House ~ Blackjack
• Vector ~ Magitek Research Facility ~ Magitek Airship
• Zozo ~ Esperland (Maduin Flashback 回想)
• Narshe
• Imperial Observation Post ~ Sealed Gate Cave
• Imperial Palace
• Albrook ~ Armor Airship ~ Crescent Island
• Thamasa
• Esper Cave
• Thamasa
• Floating Continent
• Solitary Island
• Albrook ~ Tzen
• Mobliz
• Nikeah ~ South Figaro ~ South Figaro Cave ~ Figaro Castle
• Kohlingen ~ Darill's Tomb
• Maranda ~ Zozo
• The Veldt ~ Cave on the Veldt ~ Thamasa
• Mobliz
• Dragon's Neck Coliseum
• Jidoor
• Cultist's Tower
• Phoenix Cave ~ Kohlingen
• Narshe ~ Yeti's Cave
• Inside Zone Eater's belly
• Duncan's House
• Doma Castle ~ Dreamscape
• Gau's father's house
• Thamasa ~ Ebot Rock
• Figaro Castle ~ Cave to the Ancient Castle ~ Ancient Castle
• Kefka's Tower

FFIII Players Guide

The III Players Guide is... is a curious book. It's technically official-- it was licensed by Nintendo and received cooperation with people at Square. It's of interest, but not something I'd be using as a citation of what is "official". It's kinda like if a wiki user's walkthrough somehow got printed by Square. But it does happen to divide the game into 8 chapters and also happen to give each of them names. Well, for completion's sake:

• Part 1: Up and Running (Narshe ~ Narshe Snowfield)
• Part 2: In Search of Terra (Narshe ~ Opera House)
• Part 3: In the Enemy's Back Yard (Airship ~ Narshe)
• Part 4: Of Espers and Treachery (Narshe ~ Thamasa)
• Part 5: Not With A Whimper (Thamas After Leo ~ Floating Continent)
• Part 6: A New World (Solitary Island ~ Daryl's Tomb)
• Part 7: The Roads Not Taken: Tieing Up Loose Ends (Sidequests)
• Part 8: Endgame: Going After the Big K (Cultists Tower (for some reason) and Kefka's Tower)

Y'know, that's not actually that bad. At least all the endgame sidequests are grouped into one chapter, which still makes sense. Because if these were chapters in a game, Part 7 starts when getting the airship, Part 8 starts when first entering Kefka's Tower. You could still exit, be on Part 8, but still do all the sidequests that became available in Part 7. But Cultists Tower doesn't make sense outside of Part 7.

JBed (talk) 07:10, April 19, 2020 (UTC)

That last one definitely could work, insomuch up to Part 7. I'd prefer to break up the World of Ruin's open world part more. But, will sit down and think of how later. Thanks very much for the intel. DrakeyC (talk) 16:16, April 19, 2020 (UTC)

RE: Jenova BIRTH comments

Yeah seems to be Jenova BEAT in-game, sorry about that. Weird that almost all the Japanese wikis list it as Jenova BIRTH for some reason. --Miphares (talk) 15:23, April 21, 2020 (UTC)

Battle system pages

I remember we talked ages ago about the battle system pages, but never got around to making one yet. So I've made Final Fantasy VII Remake battle system as the first of these pages, though we obviously don't have mechanics info on things like how damage is calculated or etc. just yet. Was wondering what you thought of this so far, or if you had any comments? For "Enemies", I was just going to include what the different enemy types are and how they act, and I imagine for battle system pages for other games that we'd also just describe how an enemy unit acts compared to a player-controlled party member. If you had any ideas on how to improve this, could be done for the other games also?

p.s. Will get to making that FFVIIR field page prototype once I've flown back to England sometime next week...-- Technobliterator ^T_C 05:13, May 17, 2020 (UTC)

Looks good. Enemy sections can describe how their elemental and status affinities work (sometimes they have elemental multipliers, sometimes its just double/half/immune/weak/absorb, sometimes they have status resistance %s, sometimes it's just vulnerable v. immune).

Then there are things like enemy skills, steal mechanics, drop mechanics/spoils, EXP and AP.

Different types of abilities, such as MaxHP%, CurrHP%, defense ignoring, reflectable.

And the different ways abilities can be triggered, like countering physical attacks, counter on death, etc.

Also Hard Mode.

And as I understand, there are also guest characters? JBed (talk) 06:25, May 17, 2020 (UTC)

I mentioned elemental/status affinities in the Elements/Statuses sections already, but there's probably room to elaborate on it for the Enemies section, so that's a good idea.

Enemy Skills and Steal mechanics aren't nearly as big as they were in the original game, which is why I omitted them. It's probably worth mentioning Enemy Skills in Abilities, at least. I think if I make a section for "Spoils" or something under Mechanics, then drops, EXP, AP, SP, and Steal can go there, maybe.

Not sure what you mean re: MaxHP% and CurrHP% -- do you mean the weapon passives? Same question regarding how to trigger abilities -- enemy abilities, or materia passives?

Hard mode probably deserves its own page, to be honest. Or just "Difficulty (VII Remake)" to cover all of them. There's so much info to add there that I don't think it can slot easily in any other page.

Red XIII is a guest character, but he only appears in a select few chapters at the end of the game, and there's not much to say regarding the combat system other than "he attacks stuff" (his main mechanic is actually outside of battle). I'll mention him briefly under Party members, though.-- Technobliterator ^T_C 07:44, May 17, 2020 (UTC)

Abilities have different damage formulas. Not played R, but most games have some form of attacks that deal damage based on percentage of target's current HP, and sometimes also max HP. I hear Chakra has some sort of % formula (although I don't understand what "X% of damage taken" means. maxHP minus currentHP?) I'm thinking about how I'd cover VII, and the battle system page (or a dedicated subpage) is where I'd be listing all the different attack types and damage formulas.

With trigger abilities I'm talking about Final Attacks, Magic Counters, et al. This is usually primarily an enemy thing, but I was also thinking about Support Materia. Although it looks like the Synergy Materia is the only thing resembling anything like that (I don't know the extent of party AI-controlled characters though).

The article doesn't seem to make mention of what happens when your HP reaches 0 + being wiped out/Game Overs.

Hard Mode/Difficulty should definitely have its own page. Where it modifies battle mechanics and amps up enemies it should be mentioned in the relevant sections here.

On the battle system page I would basically be mentioning every single function/mechanic that can run in battle, and every variable that interacts with each function. Though the full lists of values that go into those variables are what the list pages are for. As Steal is its entirely separate mechanic it should be mentioned in its own section/paragraph, but as it's only triggered by the Steal ability we can delegate that page for the full in-depth explanation in this case. JBed (talk) 09:17, May 17, 2020 (UTC)

Makes sense. Right now, I don't know the damage formulas for abilities but I would definitely include them if I did. With how many people have ripped this game and/or are testing mechanics, we may learn at some point though. And yes, Synergy Materia is the only real ability trigger in this installment.

Good shout on the HP 0/game over thing -- wonder what the best place to put it would be (probably under Overview?).

I don't know of how hard made modifies battle mechanics. I know that it changes enemy stats (and would include that under the Enemies section), and that you can't use items (needs adding actually), but I'm not sure beyond that.

Agreed on the last point. If we get Steal as Well in future VIIR installments, then it could be elaborated on more thoroughly on the page, but for now, it can just be a few sentences under Spoilers.

Did you want to write the "Final Fantasy VII battle system" page? I was going to do it when I get back to finishing FFVII OG gameplay content (after the VIIR field page prototype + my to-do list for VIIR content...), but you're welcome to do it first. I think I would use a similar layout as this one, but massively expanded due to having tons more mechanics as well as actual known damage formulas.-- Technobliterator ^T_C 09:28, May 17, 2020 (UTC)

It'd be nice to write a battle system page somewhere down the line. I don't have your energy or focus. I've thought about it, but I don't think I'll be writing one any time soon.

Although it's a lot more likely now than it was in the past. Now we've pretty much codified a separation of gameplay per-game everywhere, and separation of gameplay and lore on top of that. Being able to treat each game as a distinct project within the wiki should make it a lot more attractive for people to use us as their platform for FF-based research and documentation projects. I am very grateful for your energy and focus. JBed (talk) 10:59, May 17, 2020 (UTC)

Understood! I'll probably write the FFVII battle system page at some point after I'm done with VIIR content then, if you don't get to it before then.

And agreed; gameplay per-game separate from lore content just made more and more sense the more I thought about it, and should definitely make us more useful for research as I apply it to more games (after the VII series, I'm planning on doing the X series next). As much as I'm not looking forward to basically rewriting the same pages for future VIIR installments, I think there's logic to keeping separate party member/spell pages there given how they're in the context of an entirely different game. So I really hope by the end of this that we can really have an ideal place for people to go when it comes to looking up gameplay facts, and the split location pages will be a big part of that too.-- Technobliterator ^T_C 21:11, May 17, 2020 (UTC)

FF6 Glitch Question

I figured you may know - is there a glitch for when Shadow leaves the party while everyone else is KO'd and the player is left with a party of KO'd characters? DrakeyC (talk) 02:48, May 21, 2020 (UTC)

The 0 HP character bug page currently mentions similar instances (the bottom two VI entries), although they don't sound like they should be on the page. I don't think we have a page for it. JBed (talk) 12:20, May 21, 2020 (UTC)

Does sound similar, yes. I'm comfortable putting the examples on that page then. DrakeyC (talk) 13:51, May 21, 2020 (UTC)

On further research nah, this is different, so gonna make a new page. DrakeyC (talk) 16:18, May 21, 2020 (UTC)

Makes sense. Something sort of related is the Empty party glitch, which is where Shadow leaves the party when he is the party. JBed (talk) 17:05, May 21, 2020 (UTC)

Aerith= Alice

Earisu can be romanized as Alice. The "A" sound in Alice is a short A, and Japanese "A" kana is always a long "-Ah" sound. "Arisu", the usual kana spelling of "Alice", is actually pronounced "Ah-lees", while Alice is "A-lees", so Earisu (with the E-A pronounced in quick succession) is actually closer to the pronunciation of "Alice" than "Arisu" is. Hence I think Aerith Gainsborough was meant to be a mistranslated Alice, but the mistranslation became so iconic, especially after Kingdom Hearts officially named her Aerith to avoid confusion with Alice from Alice in Wonderland, that the remake always calls her Aerith. And you said "you american". You got it wrong: I'm from northern Italy! Tokoyami no Nietzsche (talk) 18:54, June 7, 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, I looked at your other contributions after and found out! I've seen Americans online ask why things are transcribed into Japanese the way they are because accents mean they pronounce things differently. I could imagine an American saying "Eeeh-lis", although now I'm not even sure that is an accent.

So both those "a" sounds becomes ア when transcribed into Japanese. I think the only time they're distinguished is when following a k/g sound, e.g. カット v. キャット.

エア is used when transcribing the "air" sound (also sometimes エァ, but that's mainly reserved to aid Japanese learning English) as in "air" and "care".

As for what which of エア or ア sounds closer to the IPA/æ/ sound of "Alice", well neither particularly. Maybe it does edge towards the former. More importantly, the latter has always been the way to transcribe it. I can't think of any case when エア = IPA/æ/. I don't think this Alice thing is an argument that a native Japanese would ever make.

Ultimately what this is about is Square's intention. And they've been very clear from before the game's release that her Japanese name derives from a transliteration of the English word "earth". エ E, ア A, リ R[I], ス S[U].

Japanese does not have the "th" sound, therefore when translating this name back to English it makes sense to use the "th" sound. And so she has been called "Aerith" in official Japanese media preceding the English release, including the Japanese game's manual. That they even bothered to make the change from Aeris>Aerith in English is kinda weird, but whatever the reason was, it was brought to match the Japanese name and the etymology.

So I refuse to believe that her name was meant to be Alice. What I will concede is that her name may have been inspired by Alice. Alice (always アリス) is a very common name in Japanese fantasy. And Aerith's Japanese name does choose to specifically use リ when any other R-kana would have done--probably because it sounded more like a real name. And maybe because it evokes "Alice". I have considered this, but I never added it to Aerith's page because it's a bit too much conjecture.

I don't know your knowledge of Japanese, but your edit summary also mentioned that ストライフ could be romanized as Strauss. It cannot. "Strauss" (ストラウス) may have been his surname in development, but the Japanese was changed. I can't remember if anything indicates Cloud was ever Claude... His mother is Claudia, but the joke is they both start クラウ[d]. The name Claudia comes from Latin where the name was pronounced like that, but the name Claude developed in French later and does not have that pronunciation, so is usually transcribed クロード. I won't definitively say クラウド couldn't have been transcribed from "Claude", but there probably would have been steps in-between. But "Cloud" seems to definitely be their intention. He's from Nibelheim. "Niflheim[r]" means "home of mist", but the Nordic word "nifl" derives from ealier words meaning "cloud". If that wasn't obvious enough, "nibel" is Sursilvan for "cloud". JBed (talk) 20:26, June 7, 2020 (UTC)

FF6 Art

Do you actually have the Volume I Ultimania guide? If so, are the SD arts of the FF6 cast in there? DrakeyC (talk) 23:54, June 14, 2020 (UTC)

About info for Black Bat in FFVII (PS1)

Formations and Locations sections remains to be added for 'Black Bat (Final Fantasy VII)' article. It is the only enemy left to add.

Thank you.--NeoCrimson (talk) 15:35, June 19, 2020 (UTC)

Hi, I really like the FF7 polygon models. Is it possible to get .stl files for young Tifa and Cloud in Nibelheim? I am thinking of printing these models to use as a wedding topper. If SE sold those figurines, I would buy them. Thanks!

FFVII REMAKE concept art: Heidegger, President Shinra and Aerith (Emerald Tiara)

Hello,

I saw these concept art in the gallery (Heidegger, President Shinra and Aerith face), and I would like to know where they come from please. I don't know why all the character designs haven't been shown yet.

Cordially. Liam Loup